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If one believes in reincarnation do they get reincarnated into a world of their own mind? Maybe that is what we inhabit. Someone's dying seconds that they reincarnate infinitely into. |
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you've smoked a lot of pot tonight haven't you? |
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the afterlife bit though...i just don't know. just like i don't know if there is any kind of higher power or deity...i don't really think about it. it kind of freaks me out thinking about how much the human race will never know for sure during life. it's all a question of faith really. |
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does it? how???? |
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...or maybe not enough belladonna. |
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oh the first part more or less makes sene but i dont agree. i dont think reality requires interpretation-- quite the contrary-- it's the interpretation that takes you away from the direct experience of it. and then again thought what does he mean by"reality"-- something outside our own perception of it? some hypothetical thing to which we have no access then? if that is the case, the issue of time passing is more or less irrelevant. |
time passing is inevitable regardless of how you may percieve or interperet it. reality is also an inevitability -- it is something that you literally cannot escape from and is something that one experiences constantly, no matter how far they've got their head up their ass or how far gone they may appear. whether you're "in the moment" or not, the moment is still there. that two hours you spent spaced out on the couch still passed at the same rate that it always had, whether you felt it or not.
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yeah but he was saying we're always a step behind the curve cos we gotta interpret first-- i disagree there, you see? i dont believe in this "trap of memory" balls. the other thing-- if there is an "out there" that is "the real"-- that's another question, but he didn't touch on that. i added that just to entagle things. |
i do believe we're trapped in memory -- everything we do requires it. even to just type this i have to remember proper wording and spelling and all that bullshit to properly communicate my ideas.
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yes but that's only 1 type of consciousness. the pandemonium model of the brain however postulate competition between many types of input/proceses. we are perfectly capable of preverbal/mammal/reptilian consciousness. put your hand on a flame if you don't believe me. before you even think the pain is there. idealists like suchfriends put too much emphasis on the "i" which they equate with "spirit" and forget the body. |
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the lady of the rocks, the lady of situations? |
i am an idealist. i don't think in terms of reality. i think about doing things all the time that i could perfectly well bring into fruition, but i never do them.
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i didnt mean idealist in this sense (striving after an ideal) but philosophically, as in idealism vs materialism, "spirit" vs. matter. religions are all forms of idealism as they preach the importance of "spirit" (consciousness) over matter. hence the notion of disembodied conciousness in the afterlife. materialism, grossly speaking, says that consciousness is an emergent property of matter-- we aren't "ghosts in the machine" but conscious bodies. |
now that youve made that post i don't know how real anything is or where anything fits in. where do you draw the line between spirit and matter? there are people who say theyve seen a ghost, which is classified as spirit but if you can see it, it takes up space, so is therefore matter?
if nothing can be created or destroyed, are new humans made up of dead ones? that would bring up the subject of reincarnation jesus i need to sit down somewhere and consider this. |
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i don't draw such a line, i don't agree with the basic asumption that would require that line. i think consciousness arises from the body. but the body of course i see as something more complex than your average josE. when i say for example that the earth is my body i don't mean it in a hippie sene, i mean it in the way that it is in fact my extended body, that i am not evolved separate from it and i come from it. in that sense my consciousness comes from a larger body-- and eons of evolution. i disagree wholly with christians notions of the "individual" souls, etc. also when you say nothing is created nor destroyed, that applies to energy, not matter (think nuclear reactions, where matter is effectively destroyed into energy)-- however, there is a 3rd wheel in the cosmos which is information, order, intelligence-- the way matter & energy are arranged and i consider that a form of matter as well. gets a bit trickier... you can't apply 1st law of thermodynamics in such broad fashion. conservation of energy refers to energy that is all. fictions such as "spirits" are not subject to them except in the sense that these "ideas" consume energy in the brains that churn them. |
ps- and yes what "real" is-- is what i was questioning in part 2 of my response, the whole "time is irrelevant" thing because if we can't access reality via perception, can we speak of "reality" at all as if it's something we actually know? because when suchfriends says "we can't know" he implies a posible "knowing". me on the other hand, i plead total ignorance.
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Oh lordy, the mind/body dilemma. Yay. Symbols reppin the Aristotle (though I doubt if this works as a response), Tank sounding like she needs to read some Descartes...
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sure, life is art - and as this book points out  |
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I don't smoke pot. My brain is naturally fucked. |
the human body with exception of the brain and the bones, is completely replaced by itself (all it's cells completely replace themselves on the order of 5-6 times a year.) the atoms that make up your body and that yhou are eatinga nd drinking and inhaling and rubbing into yr skin are the same atoms that have been rolling around on the earth for over 5 billion years and before that were inside of a star for several billion years.
you inhale dust (most;ly dead human skin cells) that contains atoms that were parts of those you come in contact with. |
Yeah, that's wild stuff and all perfectly accurate. Also, atoms are mostly composed of empty space...which really seems weird when you think about it.
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can someone explain to me the concept of empty space? there has to be SOMETHING in there, doesn't there? even the free air is not empty space, there are all kinds of things in the air.
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no, there doesn't have to be anything. When you get down to the quantum level, either something is there or nothing is there.
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here we go e,pty space in the macro world is the space between atoms of matter. that space is empty of matter. However, even in the truest vaccum of deep space, that "space" is fuil of constantly flying radiation, gamma rays, x rays, radio waves, etc. there is energy there, but the space is devoid of matter now, even that wholly empty space, when you look at it close enough, and at small enough distances, is not truly "empty" quantum mechanics states that at a level smaller than the Planck length, (the absolute smallest distance that we can measure or say anything meaningful about , around 1.6 × 10−35 meters ) spacetime itself is actually more of a froth of particles popping in and out of existance lasting less than the Planck time (the amount of time a photon travelling at light speed would take to cross the planck length, ridiculously short amount of time) due to the energy always present in event the deep3est vaccum, these "virtual particles" will pop into existance, a particle and it's anti-particle, andinstantly annihilate themselves, before the planck time has elapsed. there is no true "empty space" |
The majority of the atom, any atom, even an atom of the most solid material, is empty space. Atoms are intrinsic units due to the tiny electrons orbiting the the nucleus at light speed that bind it together and lead to atoms forming together and repelling each other through molecular chemistry.
These electromagnetic and gravitational energy forces, part of which Rob described in greater detail with the "virtual particles" are present in the large virtually empty space of the atom, but it is without matter or mass as we think of the terms. There's a nucleus and then there's lots of empty space, and then there's the tiny electrons buzzing around at light speed. Now, true, scientists are trying to work out gravity as both a particle and a wave (like light) in their theoretical study of the gravitron nanoparticle, but essentially, the space is empty. I'm not saying that Rob is wrong, and I am not wrong either. It's just that there are points to be elucidated further. It's interesing stuff since obviously the gravitational force, which occurs at the speed of light, is what orders the natural laws of the universe. http://education.jlab.org/qa/atomicstructure_10.html If atoms are 99.999999999999% empty space then why don't things pass right through them? Things don't fall through other things because they are levitating on an electrostatic field! I am not kidding! When you sit on a chair, you are not really touching it. You see, every atom is surrounded by a shell of electrons. This electron cloud presents a rather negative face to the world. Remember that like charges repel each other. When two atoms approach each other, their electron shells push back at each other, despite the fact that each atom's net charge is 0. This is a very useful feature of nature. It makes our lives a lot easier. Now the question you should be asking is, if atoms push away from each other, why doesn't the entire universe just blow away from itself? The answer is that some, actually most atoms' electron shells are not full. When two atoms come together and have empty spaces in their electron shells, they will share electrons to fill in the spaces in both of their shells. Yes, the electrons really do go back and forth between atoms and they do so pretty fast. Electrons tend to be kind of mobile, which is also a very nice feature of nature, since without it your walkman would not work. Once both atoms' outer shells are full due to this electron sharing, they go back to their usual repulsive behavior. This, by the way, is how we get molecules and the secret to understanding Chemistry. It's all about the electrons! |
it's all about the electrons!
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Like you originally stated, "empty" is somewhat misleading because there are energy fields in the vast "empty" areas, & in that way it can be stated loosely that inner space is akin to the vacuum of outer space.
Thing is, those electrons are moving so fast that they are almost in many places at once. I would imagine that a diamond has a whole lot of electrons whipping around constantly. this story I read the other day was interesting Their Deepest, Darkest Discovery Scientists Create a Black That Erases Virtually All Light http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...nation/science |
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