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weird question for musicians
i was reading this Big Black article on a website and Steve Albini says this of Atomizer:
"'ATOMIZER' WAS an OK record. Having listened to most of that stuff for the first time in seven years yesterday, most of it is pretty embarrassing. I was sort of trying to figure out a way to weasel out of re-releasing it." now, i suppose Steve Albini is a bit of a perfectionist, but that record is great and i'd definitely be proud if i made something like that. okay, so my question is, when you guys make music, are you a complete perfectionist? do you keep coming back, changing this verse and that, making sure the production of the product is spot on or do you just let it all flow, not really giving a shit if the production is muddy or tame etc.? this probably isn't thread-worthy but i am sort of interested in what you guys think. |
I don't record much, but I write a lot of stuff and I constantly go back to it. Even to the point where I've stopped writing songs--I just write down pieces, riffs, licks, progressions, melodies, etc., and piece them together seperately where (if) I can. That way it's kind of like having a bunch of colors to pick from but never actually having to put the paint down.
I hate committing anything to a final form. |
There's plenty of things I've recorderd that horrify me now - so naive and half-assed. Still, it's by making mistakes that I've learnt what does and doesn't work, so I still maintain a weird sort of pride for my early stuff.
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I'm like my production and sound to be fuzzy and kind of out-of-focus. That said, I can obsess over unexpected fuzz or things not sounding how I want to. Example, when my reverb unit overloads it starts to distort horribly, but this makes me very angry when I have to tweak the input levels to make sure my 3 distortions sound clear running through it. Although, when it comes to straight "guitar" tone, I don't obsess over signal loss or a little effect bleed coloring the clean tone.
Also, lately I've been recording acoustically to a battery-powered tape recorder with an external mic. I really dig the tape warbles it gets because of the batteries dying. I hate it recording electric, though. |
myspace.com/leakyheadboy ...no
i like to bang it out then call it quits then you can listen to it without tearing your hair out at every doink and flomp |
I can entirely sympathise with Albini, in spite of not having put a record out yet. Generally speaking, I'm not happy with anything. It's why I don't have a myspace, or do the last.fm thing. You'll hear an awful lot of shit unsigned bands, and very few bands that are merely 'ok'... and I can only assume that everyone thinks like me, or (you'll like this bit), everyone's capable of thinking like me but falls short.
There's too much music, and too many people recording shit in their bedrooms for no ostensible reason. Having said that, I listened to Canterkerous' stuff recently, and the fact she seems reticent to push it makes me think that, not only can she produce some worthwhile stuff, she's also got the right attitude (i.e., modesty before foisting it on even this small corner of the interworld). |
sorry then
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i actually want to get about an album worth of material by the end of the year, though i'll look back at it and cringe at my horrible teenage voice and my lack of production skills blah blah etc. |
Yeah I think everyone is (or should be) sceptical about their music to an extent. There really is a lot of good stuff out there, and it should be daunting.
I won't record my own stuff, and very rarely play it for other people, because I'm afraid of it turning out horribly (and also having no means of doing it lately, fucking ProToolsnotworkingonmotherfuckingVista). That said, I honestly don't know if my scepticism is valid or not. For all I know my music really is shit and should stay in my room where it belongs. But that's kind of the nature of scepticism, I suppose. |
Glice - I stopped recording/playing for ages because I asked myself, "Does anyone really give a shit about what I do", and I answered, "No", so just gave up.
I treat it purely as a hobby now - I do have a MySpace, as you know, but haven't actually bothered linking my mates etc to it. I guess it just satisfies my ego to have some stuff online, and for one ot two people to say what they think. Porky was honest to me about what I recorded when I met him last week, which I was geniunely grateful for. |
i really have mixed feelings because on the one hand, i can't really see where a song is going if i'm not recording it but once i record it i can hear stuff that sounds guff and it makes me cringe.
a lot of my output i like it being sloppy so it's no biggie but still, i really wish i could reform my old band and re-record the demo we did, only with the improvements we added as time went by. i think some of my more satifying work is when it's largely improvisational. |
I'm fine with my production because I don't record. If I listened to my music recorded I'm sure I would find it boring as that is only half of the experience. Every idea dies and grows cold when committed to paper (or microphone).
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I also have the problem that I genuinely and honestly believe the overwhelming majority of people's opinion on music to be categorically wrong (it's a question of how entertaining people are while they're wrong).
Then again, I thought the Cramps were shit when I first heard them, so what do (/did) (the younger) (')I(') know? |
I prefer Atomizer to Songs About Fucking.
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You either don't really listen to enough music to claim things like that or you're just bored with it and can't find a way out. I read a lot of similar sentiments like yours on here enough to make me think that sort of thing. |
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what he said. |
I personnally record almost everything I play - but I don't release all of it of course. It's not that I enjoy listening what I do, but I like to keep a track of the evolution of my songs, so that I can play it the way I really prefer. That said, I'm not really a perfectionnist. Sometimes I am (like one year ago, I took months to completely write an album, every part of it), sometimes I am not (like I've already "released" albums only made of tracks that I worked five minutes on)...
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I spend forever writing songs, me and Booe spend forever composing and producing them. I live through the songs for a really long time. But the time the album comes out, I'm sick of them. And I don't ever listen to my own music.. because I don't need to. But I will OCCASSIONALLY go back and listen to old stuff and be surprised/embarassed by things I've done.
I guess, I just try to only release things of quality so even if I don't like what I put out before, I am happy I put it out. |
Hahah Passing Complexion is a masterpiece, by the way. That's why scissor shock covered it :)
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As long as the quality doesn't affect the song then I don't give a fuck. If the music is good enough it won't matter.
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I think about songwriting in the same way as I think about art in general.
It's the process of songwriting that's important - the thought, feeling and artistic expression that goes into a song begins to dissipate from the moment that the song is complete. A song only has its full integrity at the time of it's first performance, after that it gradually loses its purpose until eventually it is irrelevant as a work of art. I'm not sure that Albini sees his work in the same way, but I can understand what he's on about. |
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i'm the same. I'm not that arrogant to think people want to hear me moan about stuff. That said i still love playing and recording, its just that when i listen back i rarely get a good feeling. I've also got no faith in my friends taste in music, or their ability to tell me somethings shit, so i've no real quality control other than myself. And i can be a stuborn fuck. There's one track i've done which is kinda noisey. I really like it but no one else (in the band or otherwise) does so should i stop playing it? Should i dig my heals in or accept that its shit? |
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other than on here, natch |
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If i were a musician that's what i would have done. Maybe that's why i'm not a musician... |
Steve Albini should only really feel guilty about the poor mastering of Big Black's stuff. I'm not complaining or anything, just that as a producer i'm sure it bugs him to hear all the hiss and crap
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i am ocd and dont take my meds, nuff said
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I actually have been diagnosed with ocd as well. Not on any medication though.
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I'm not a perfectionist with the music I record, though I think this is because of my complete lack of production skills (Audacity is difficult for me). I've just recorded three tracks, which I've put on my Myspace page, but all of them have mistakes eg. on the "Like an Oil Spill" song, the only aspect I'm completely happy with is my vocal (though maybe it's too close to the original vocal). The guitar came out too distorted and the percussion sounds wrong, it was mixed too loudly, and I forgot to add lead guitar, bass and saxophone - I only realised when it was on Myspace. And on the "Piano in C Sharp Minor" track I play an obviously wrong note towards the end. But I'm to lazy to fix these up.
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D&tM:
Try Cool Edit Pro 2.0 or Adobe Audition (They're the same program). Really easy to learn, I personally prefer them to Audacity. |
I was told to get Cool Edit by my singing teacher awhile ago, I was going to download it, but it cost a lot of money, so I was going to download the demo version, but it was going to take hours so I didn't bother.
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You can find a good cracked version with a quick google search.
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Okay, thanks.
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yeah adobe audition/cool edit pro is god like.
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i have it on my computer but haven't installed it WOW.
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I think you're right, on both counts. The problem, I think, is that I end up seeing a lot of local live music, and I seem to have created a seperation between 'social' music and 'art' music in my head. If I don't know, or haven't seen live, a rock band, I'll tend to dismiss it unless its head is several legions above the parapet of 'good'. |
big black rule.
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that's a bit dogmatic |
I find that when doing composed material, a lot of our songs need time to evolve a bit and mutate somewhat before they're ready to be performed at a show or recorded, which to me makes them a little "lesser" at their beginnings. They usually need to "grow up" a little bit.
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