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Originally Posted by Genteel Death

The right and left have been exposed as being the same side of the coin before. They are allowed to dominate discussion about politics as opposites arguing a point that doesn't exist in reality. You really need to get some decent books to read and stop vomiting redundant opinions to make you feel smarter than you really are.

i don't think that the problem with his argument is whether the critique of "wingness" is original (why should originality matter in this context?) but rather whether "islam" is a monoblock or not. this is not the time of the crusades after all, is it?

still, a culture defined by religion or religiosity presents a serious danger to secularism. while the west is nominally "christian", the state is now secular everywhere you go. in a way, "christian nations" are no longer such, and in spite of the protestations of fringe elements, this is a good thing for freedom and for peace-- seriously. george bush is a born again who talked to chirac about "gog and magog" as an excuse to invade then-secular iraq. i think in his cokehead brain he seriously thought he was doing "god's work" (and he even claimed "god is on our side" once i think).

now you could point to secular muslim nations like turkey, but even they are having problems keeping the islamists out of government (they have an islamist in power currently, no? though just not such a monster--yet). who else? indonesia? the state regulates religion, and pancasila youth > sonic youth. but seriously, indonesia holds out as secular so far. other countries? anyone here knows? one could look in wikipedia i guess.

a pity that islamic civilization, which was a beacon of enlightenment in the middle ages, has been enduring its own dark ages as of late-- from iran to sudan, primitivism has been steadily taken over. just look at what happened to poor iran-- a fucking disgrace, that's what. pakistan islamicized in the 70s as well.

as for immigrants coming from such countries-- as an immigrant myself, i'm with the mayor of rotterdam. reasonably integrate (reasonably, not absolutely) or gtfo.